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How do I generate tagged PDFs with asciidoctor-pdf that can pass the accessibility test?

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tcowan

Feb 06, 2020; 7:17pm

How do I generate tagged PDFs with asciidoctor-pdf that can pass the accessibility test?

2 posts

I teach for a local university that is now requiring us to distribute documents that are "accessible". I have been using asciidoctor to author my assignments and syllabi (because it is fabulous) but the resultant PDF files created by asciidoctor-pdf are not tagged and therefore fail the accessibility test. There are other issues that lower my score, such as contrast, but I believe I can correct that on my own.

I note that if I upload the same document in HTML format, the HTML file passes the accessibility test with 100%.

Is there any way to create tagged PDFs using asciidoctor that can pass the accessibility test?

...ted

mojavelinux

Feb 06, 2020; 7:23pm

Re: How do I generate tagged PDFs with asciidoctor-pdf that can pass the accessibility test?

Administrator

2681 posts

The PDF generator that Asciidoctor PDF uses, Prawn, does not support tagged PDFs. As a result, Asciidoctor PDF does not support tagged PDFs. I don't know anything we can do about that. (But if someone else does know, I encourage you to come forward with that information).

This could be an important goal for the asciidoctor-pdf.js project, which starts with HTML. See https://github.com/mogztter/asciidoctor-pdf.js

Cheers,

-Dan

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 12:17 PM tcowan [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote:

I teach for a local university that is now requiring us to distribute documents that are "accessible". I have been using asciidoctor to author my assignments and syllabi (because it is fabulous) but the resultant PDF files created by asciidoctor-pdf are not tagged and therefore fail the accessibility test. There are other issues that lower my score, such as contrast, but I believe I can correct that on my own.

I note that if I upload the same document in HTML format, the HTML file passes the accessibility test with 100%.

Is there any way to create tagged PDFs using asciidoctor that can pass the accessibility test?

...ted

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Dan Allen | @mojavelinux | https://twitter.com/mojavelinux

tcowan

Feb 06, 2020; 7:45pm

Re: How do I generate tagged PDFs with asciidoctor-pdf that can pass the accessibility test?

2 posts

Dan,

Thank you for an amazingly fast and complete response.

I am unfamiliar with asciidoctor-pdf.js, but it sounds like a new asciidoctor-pdf that uses different (perhaps more capable) technology to create PDF files. Please confirm?

Meanwhile, I posted a question on the Prawn discussion group to see if there were any near-term plans to add tagging to PDFs. I suspect that even if they added that feature tomorrow, it would take some time for asciidoctor to implement and test the feature.

My $0.02 is that accessibility is a big topic in academia, and asciidoctor is a powerful tool for academia. Please consider prioritizing accessibility going forward.

...ted

David Jencks

Feb 06, 2020; 7:53pm

Re: How do I generate tagged PDFs with asciidoctor-pdf that can pass the accessibility test?

68 posts

asciidoctor-pdf.js loads generated html into chromium headless browser, uses paged.js to paginate and otherwise format suitably for printing, and then uses chromium “print to pdf” to generate the pdfs.

I see two ways this might support accessibility:

- perhaps chromium ‘print to pdf” already does

- It’s possible to manipulate the generated pdf to add things like the pdf outline.

Do you have any handy references for this accessibility stuff?

thanks

david jencks

On Feb 6, 2020, at 11:45 AM, tcowan [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dan,

Thank you for an amazingly fast and complete response.

I am unfamiliar with asciidoctor-pdf.js, but it sounds like a new asciidoctor-pdf that uses different (perhaps more capable) technology to create PDF files. Please confirm?

Meanwhile, I posted a question on the Prawn discussion group to see if there were any near-term plans to add tagging to PDFs. I suspect that even if they added that feature tomorrow, it would take some time for asciidoctor to implement and test the feature.
"
My $0.02 is that accessibility is a big topic in academia, and asciidoctor is a powerful tool for academia. Please consider prioritizing accessibility going forward.

...ted

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
https://discuss.asciidoctor.org/How-do-I-generate-tagged-PDFs-with-asciidoctor-pdf-that-can-pass-the-accessibility-test-tp7583p7585.html

To start a new topic under Asciidoctor :: Discussion, [hidden email]
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NAML

... [show rest of quote]

mojavelinux

Feb 06, 2020; 7:59pm

Re: How do I generate tagged PDFs with asciidoctor-pdf that can pass the accessibility test?

Administrator

2681 posts

In reply to this post by tcowan

I am unfamiliar with asciidoctor-pdf.js, but it sounds like a new asciidoctor-pdf that uses different (perhaps more capable) technology to create PDF files. Please confirm?

I'll be issuing a formal statement once the Asciidoctor 1.5.0 release is published. For now, I'll say that asciidoctor-pdf.js is an experiment worth checking out.

Please consider prioritizing accessibility (in PDF) going forward.

It's not a matter of priority. I recognize it's important. I just don't know how to do it (given the limitations we have).

Cheers,

-Dan

Dan Allen | @mojavelinux | https://twitter.com/mojavelinux

mojavelinux

Feb 06, 2020; 8:00pm

Re: How do I generate tagged PDFs with asciidoctor-pdf that can pass the accessibility test?

Administrator

2681 posts

In reply to this post by David Jencks

> - perhaps chromium ‘print to pdf” already does

That's what I had in mind. If it's a matter of supplementing the HTML we feed it, easy peasy.

-Dan

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 12:53 PM David Jencks [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote:

asciidoctor-pdf.js loads generated html into chromium headless browser, uses paged.js to paginate and otherwise format suitably for printing, and then uses chromium “print to pdf” to generate the pdfs.

I see two ways this might support accessibility:

- perhaps chromium ‘print to pdf” already does
- It’s possible to manipulate the generated pdf to add things like the pdf outline.

Do you have any handy references for this accessibility stuff?

thanks
david jencks

On Feb 6, 2020, at 11:45 AM, tcowan [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dan,

Thank you for an amazingly fast and complete response.

I am unfamiliar with asciidoctor-pdf.js, but it sounds like a new asciidoctor-pdf that uses different (perhaps more capable) technology to create PDF files. Please confirm?

Meanwhile, I posted a question on the Prawn discussion group to see if there were any near-term plans to add tagging to PDFs. I suspect that even if they added that feature tomorrow, it would take some time for asciidoctor to implement and test the feature.
"
My $0.02 is that accessibility is a big topic in academia, and asciidoctor is a powerful tool for academia. Please consider prioritizing accessibility going forward.

...ted

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
https://discuss.asciidoctor.org/How-do-I-generate-tagged-PDFs-with-asciidoctor-pdf-that-can-pass-the-accessibility-test-tp7583p7585.html

To start a new topic under Asciidoctor :: Discussion, [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Asciidoctor :: Discussion, click here.
NAML
... [show rest of quote]

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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NAML

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Dan Allen | @mojavelinux | https://twitter.com/mojavelinux

Steve Litt

Feb 06, 2020; 10:11pm

Re: How do I generate tagged PDFs with asciidoctor-pdf that can pass the accessibility test?

8 posts

In reply to this post by tcowan

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 12:17:31 -0700 (MST)
"tcowan [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion]"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> I teach for a local university that is now requiring us to distribute
> documents that are "accessible". I have been using asciidoctor to
> author my assignments and syllabi (because it is fabulous) but the
> resultant PDF files created by asciidoctor-pdf are not tagged and
> therefore fail the accessibility test. There are other issues that
> lower my score, such as contrast, but I believe I can correct that on
> my own.
>
> I note that if I upload the same document in HTML format, the HTML
> file passes the accessibility test with 100%.
>
> Is there any way to create tagged PDFs using asciidoctor that can
> pass the accessibility test?

What if you generate .epub instead? Assuming you put Alt tags on
everything, isn't ePub accessible out of the box?

SteveT

Steve Litt
February 2020 featured book: Thriving in Tough Times
http://www.troubleshooters.com/thrive

David Jencks

Feb 07, 2020; 11:16pm

Re: How do I generate tagged PDFs with asciidoctor-pdf that can pass the accessibility test?

68 posts

In reply to this post by mojavelinux

I see in paged.js stuff like

pause: {
 comment: "https://www.w3.org/TR/css3-speech/#property-index",
 syntax: "<'pause-before'> <'pause-after'>?"
},

does that relate to accessibility? I think there’s a good chance Chromium does something with this if paged.js is noticing it.

David Jencks

On Feb 6, 2020, at 12:01 PM, mojavelinux [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote:

> - perhaps chromium ‘print to pdf” already does

That's what I had in mind. If it's a matter of supplementing the HTML we feed it, easy peasy.

-Dan

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 12:53 PM David Jencks [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <<a href="x-msg://5/user/SendEmail.jtp?type=node&node=7589&i=0" target="_top" rel="nofollow" link="external" class="">[hidden email]> wrote:
asciidoctor-pdf.js loads generated html into chromium headless browser, uses paged.js to paginate and otherwise format suitably for printing, and then uses chromium “print to pdf” to generate the pdfs.

I see two ways this might support accessibility:

- perhaps chromium ‘print to pdf” already does
- It’s possible to manipulate the generated pdf to add things like the pdf outline.

Do you have any handy references for this accessibility stuff?

thanks
david jencks

On Feb 6, 2020, at 11:45 AM, tcowan [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dan,

Thank you for an amazingly fast and complete response.

I am unfamiliar with asciidoctor-pdf.js, but it sounds like a new asciidoctor-pdf that uses different (perhaps more capable) technology to create PDF files. Please confirm?

Meanwhile, I posted a question on the Prawn discussion group to see if there were any near-term plans to add tagging to PDFs. I suspect that even if they added that feature tomorrow, it would take some time for asciidoctor to implement and test the feature.
"
My $0.02 is that accessibility is a big topic in academia, and asciidoctor is a powerful tool for academia. Please consider prioritizing accessibility going forward.

...ted

If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
https://discuss.asciidoctor.org/How-do-I-generate-tagged-PDFs-with-asciidoctor-pdf-that-can-pass-the-accessibility-test-tp7583p7585.html
To start a new topic under Asciidoctor :: Discussion, [hidden email]
To unsubscribe from Asciidoctor :: Discussion, click here.
NAML
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If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
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--
Dan Allen | @mojavelinux | https://twitter.com/mojavelinux

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