O'Reilly Atlas

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O'Reilly Atlas

ChrLipp
Does anyone know O'Reilly Atlas (http://atlas.labs.oreilly.com/) ?

They are using Asciidoc for markup, would like to know if they are using Asciidoctor or Asciidoc?
They are also developing a web editor (see blog), would be interesting to know if this will be closed or open source.

StackEdit (https://stackedit.io/) is also quite interesting, I filed a feature request (https://github.com/benweet/stackedit/issues/129) to support Asciidoctor ;-)

Kind regards, CL
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Re: O'Reilly Atlas

LightGuardjp
Dan is in communication with them, however, I believe they're using the python implementation, but they may be moving to Asciidoctor. They've forked the repo and have made some of their own changes. I'm not sure if they've migrated or not.


On Fri, Oct 25, 2013 at 1:35 AM, ChrLipp [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Does anyone know O'Reilly Atlas (http://atlas.labs.oreilly.com/) ?

They are using Asciidoc for markup, would like to know if they are using Asciidoctor or Asciidoc?
They are also developing a web editor (see blog), would be interesting to know if this will be closed or open source.

StackEdit (https://stackedit.io/) is also quite interesting, I filed a feature request (https://github.com/benweet/stackedit/issues/129) to support Asciidoctor ;-)

Kind regards, CL


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Re: O'Reilly Atlas

mgreau
In reply to this post by ChrLipp
Hi,

I discovered O'Reilly Atlas last week, I joined the notification list.
     
The Farata Team is currently writing a book with O'Reilly and Atlas, you can see the github repo [1] because O'Reilly accepted that they opensourced the book draft.

They wrote a blog post about it [2] and they recorded a webcast [3] where they explain how they work with O'Reilly Atlas.
You can also read the book online [4].

As I understand, the Farata team is using Asciidoctor in dev mode (since the book is about 500 pages) and Asciidoc is used at O'Reilly.

[1] github repo :  https://github.com/Farata/EnterpriseWebBook
[2] blog post :  http://flexblog.faratasystems.com/2013/06/30/how-we-write-a-book-for-oreilly
[3] webcast : https://meet46948477.adobeconnect.com/_a1111770518/p787zw7522e/
[4] website : http://enterprisewebbook.com/
mgreau.com/posts => HubPress Blog :)
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Re: O'Reilly Atlas

mojavelinux
Administrator
Christian,

As Maxime suggested, the authors of the Enterprise Web Development book [1] can probably shed the most light on the AsciiDoc toolchain at O'Reilly. They also participate in and track the Asciidoctor project.

I'm trying to get a read on how deep the adoption of Asciidoctor is at O'Reilly. They haven't been very vocal about it, but as Jason mentioned they have forked Asciidoctor and are working on a custom backend [2]. My guess is that they'll adopt Asciidoctor for new developments, such as HTMLBook. (They're probably working through the typical challenge of software migration).

I've discussed Atlas with them on several occasions. It's not clear to me why they would in-house the development of such a complex webapp when doing it in the community would be much more sustainable. If they are interested, I'm sure folks in the our community will be interested in hacking on it.

Most of the O'Reilly authors I know are using Asciidoctor locally...so that should help drive adoption at O'Reilly. The speed and accuracy of Asciidoctor is clearly good for everyone. Compare the time it takes to render the Spring Reference with syntax highlighting between AsciiDoc and Asciidoctor:

AsciiDoc: 1m 20s
Asciidoctor: 4.5s

without syntax highlighting (relying on a client-side library):

AsciiDoc: 47s (with tons of warnings about missing block style w/o the Asciidoctor compatibility file)
Asciidoctor: 2s

Hopefully, the metrics will do the convincing if the authors aren't able to.

If anyone else has more insight, I'd be glad to hear about it!

-Dan

[1] http://enterprisewebbook.com
[2] https://github.com/oreillymedia/asciidoctor-htmlbook



On Sat, Oct 26, 2013 at 2:41 AM, mgreau [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi,

I discovered O'Reilly Atlas last week, I joined the notification list.
     
The Farata Team is currently writing a book with O'Reilly and Atlas, you can see the github repo [1] because O'Reilly accepted that they opensourced the book draft.

They wrote a blog post about it [2] and they recorded a webcast [3] where they explain how they work with O'Reilly Atlas.
You can also read the book online [4].

As I understand, the Farata team is using Asciidoctor in dev mode (since the book is about 500 pages) and Asciidoc is used at O'Reilly.

[1] github repo :  https://github.com/Farata/EnterpriseWebBook
[2] blog post :  http://flexblog.faratasystems.com/2013/06/30/how-we-write-a-book-for-oreilly
[3] webcast : https://meet46948477.adobeconnect.com/_a1111770518/p787zw7522e/
[4] website : http://enterprisewebbook.com/
mgreau.com => awestruct + asciidoctor website/blog



If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion below:
http://discuss.asciidoctor.org/O-Reilly-Atlas-tp872p881.html
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NAML



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Re: O'Reilly Atlas

mojavelinux
Administrator
In reply to this post by mgreau

On Wed, Nov 6, 2013 at 3:06 PM, Dan Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
AsciiDoc: 1m 20s
Asciidoctor: 4.5s

without syntax highlighting (relying on a client-side library):

AsciiDoc: 47s (with tons of warnings about missing block style w/o the Asciidoctor compatibility file)
Asciidoctor: 2s

Btw, that's a 95% reduction in speed from AsciiDoc to Asciidoctor.

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Re: O'Reilly Atlas

mojavelinux
Administrator
In reply to this post by mgreau
Here's how the Spring Reference looks using the HTMLBook backend and a stylesheet I grabbed out of the O'Reilly GitHub org.

Inline image 1

HTML from HTMLBook is 2.3M, down from 2.7M using Asciidoctor's built-in HTML backend. It does introduce some constrains, such as no titles on paragraphs, but perhaps for good reason.

Aligning with HTMLBook is how I think we should approach the "create an HTML5 backend that maximizes semantic constructs" issue in Asciidoctor [1].

-Dan

[1] https://github.com/asciidoctor/asciidoctor/issues/242
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Re: O'Reilly Atlas

mattneub
In reply to this post by mojavelinux
mojavelinux wrote
I'm trying to get a read on how deep the adoption of Asciidoctor is at
O'Reilly. They haven't been very vocal about it, but as Jason mentioned
they have forked Asciidoctor and are working on a custom backend [2]. My
guess is that they'll adopt Asciidoctor for new developments, such as
HTMLBook. (They're probably working through the typical challenge of
software migration).
Here's a report on the current situation. At this point the adoption of Asciidoctor at O'Reilly would appear to be total. I've been writing my books in AsciiDoc for years, revising them annually, publishing by way of what we may call the old Atlas. I was warned a year or so ago that things would change, and in December 2015, all my stuff was migrated into the new Atlas and rejiggered to work under Asciidoctor.

Note that the O'Reilly folks are frozen at commit 77091b, which is a couple of years old. That's because after that, fundamental features of the accepted AsciiDoc text syntax started to change in ways that were incompatible with old Python AsciiDoc. Maintaining compatibility, as books are brought over from the older Python-AsciiDoc system, is crucial, and the word is that this adherence to commit 77091b will remain for the foreseeable future.

Indeed, I offered to attempt to update my text syntax to the current standard and was told that there was no merit in doing so.

And this was actually a relief, because not only would I have had to change the text, but I would also have had to change my TextMate AsciiDoc grammar bundle that I use for syntax highlighting and other conveniences as I write and edit locally. As it stands, the syntax highlighting just keeps working, more or less as is. The only thing I had to do, after installing the commit 77091b version of the asciidoctor gem, was to rewrite my chapter-rendering script to use asciidoctor instead of asciidoc (which took about two minutes). That way, I can continue to preview each chapter as HTML, just as a way of proofreading, as I've been doing for years.