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I'm definitely sympathetic to the desire to have a traditional mailinglist, esp for people who have deep experience in software communities. While they are convenient for someone who has the right setup (an e-mail program with filters enabled), they pose two major barriers to newcomers we want to be a part of the discussion: 1) requires a formal subscription and with it, the requirement to process all inbound messages (even if they are digests) 2) a requirement to reply by e-mail (which completely breaks for anyone receiving a digest or not on the list) There are obviously some attempts at a bridge between e-mail and web, Nabble being one of those interfaces. However, Nabble has proved to be too arcane and not very user friendly (and quite ugly, I might add). Personally, I have a major bone with mailinglist software because it has completely failed to make the leap into the modern computing world. To cite one example, it's terribly difficult to read many mailinglists on a mobile phone. Don't even get me started on how ugly and unreadable the gmane.org web interface is. Simply put, we want something modern. Discourse is an example of a fresh approach to discussions. It's possible to send and receive messages via e-mail, but it's not your traditional mailinglist. It may not be a perfect solution, but I'd like to try it and see what works and what doesn't and try to improve Discourse with feedback if we find things that can improve it. I recognize I'm drawing a rather hard line on this because I'm _really_ frustrated with the state of mailinglist software...or more precisely, it's unwillingness to evolve. We're all about evolving, so, I think we need to show our support for initiatives that are trying to bring discussions into the modern era and make them extremely friendly for newcomers and mobile devices. -Dan On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 12:48 AM, gour [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote: On Sun, 7 Sep 2014 21:38:44 -0700 (PDT) ... [show rest of quote] Dan Allen | http://google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen |
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In reply to this post by gour
Having said all that, I would be perfectly willing to look into a bridge that sends all messages to a traditional mailinglist for archive and digest purposes. I just don't want a traditional mailinglist to be the primary / sole interface for discussions. -Dan On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:14 AM, Dan Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
... [show rest of quote] Dan Allen | http://google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen |
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In reply to this post by gour
You might be interested in this thread about a news gateway for Discourse. I do consider it an important feature. -Dan On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 1:16 AM, Dan Allen <[hidden email]> wrote:
... [show rest of quote] Dan Allen | http://google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen |
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In reply to this post by mojavelinux
On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 00:08:34 -0700 (PDT)
"mojavelinux [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion]" <[hidden email]> wrote: > 1) requires a formal subscription and with it, the requirement to > process all inbound messages (even if they are digests) Well, Gmane does not require it - only one-time email reply. > 2) a requirement to reply by e-mail (which completely breaks for > anyone receiving a digest or not on the list) That's true, but I very rarely see replies from people receiving digests. It may be that they are mostly lurking. > Personally, I have a major bone with mailinglist software > because it has completely failed to make the leap into the modern > computing world. To cite one example, it's terribly difficult to read > many mailinglists on a mobile phone. Don't even get me started on how > ugly and unreadable the gmane.org web interface is. I can understand your complains in regard to mailinglist software & modernity, but I believe that the problem is when mailing lists wanted to replace newsgroups which I consider superior to both web forums and mailing lists. Gmane web interface is not great, but people can use news reader on their phones and have much better experience. Moreover, I assume we agree that mobile devices are not meant for serious *writing, but only as convenience for *reading*. > Simply put, we want something modern. Discourse is an example of a > fresh approach to discussions. It's possible to send and receive > messages via e-mail, but it's not your traditional mailinglist. It > may not be a perfect solution, but I'd like to try it and see what > works and what doesn't and try to improve Discourse with feedback if > we find things that can improve it. OK..as I write above - traditional newsgroup are, imho, much better, but not with the Google's groups UI which is horrible. > I recognize I'm drawing a rather hard line on this because I'm > _really_ frustrated with the state of mailinglist software...or more > precisely, it's unwillingness to evolve. We're all about evolving, Yeah, I'm also for evolving...Asciidoc(tor) is for me evolving into the right direction making it much *simpler* to write than trying to do the same using DocBook which was also considered 'evolving' for writing docs. :-) In that vein, I believe that mailinlists and especially webforums are trying to become more modern, but not providing *simpler experience* over (old) nntp-based newswgrops for *both* reading and writing. Lastly, being interested for Asciidoc(tor) I'm still following it... ;) Sincerely, Gour |
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Gour, You raise a great point in this thread. Something definitely died when nntp got trumped by mailinglists in OSS. In fact, it's fair to say that my frustration with mailinglists is not just that they have stagnated, but that they displaced (in terms of popular usage) nntp with something worse. I obtained most of my initial knowledge of Linux and open source software from newsgroups and remember having a very good experience using them. Sadly, Mailman happened. As we pursue the migration of the list, I think we should keep in mind how to bridge it to nntp and gmane. An nntp reader would certainly be an effective way to keep up with discussions on a phone. Of course, we'd want to clearly document how the community can take advantage of this bridge so newcomers can try it as well as experienced hands. Our view about mobile devices differs. I believe strongly that mobile devices can and will be used for everything we use laptops for today. The only thing holding mobile back from being fully duplex are bad user interfaces. If I could, I would do all my work (reading and writing) on my phone or small tablet. -Dan On Mon, Sep 8, 2014 at 3:37 AM, gour [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote: On Mon, 8 Sep 2014 00:08:34 -0700 (PDT) ... [show rest of quote] Dan Allen | http://google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen |
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On Tue, 9 Sep 2014 23:05:31 -0700 (PDT)
"mojavelinux [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion]" <[hidden email]> wrote: > You raise a great point in this thread. Something definitely died > when nntp got trumped by mailinglists in OSS. In fact, it's fair to > say that my frustration with mailinglists is not just that they have > stagnated, but that they displaced (in terms of popular usage) nntp > with something worse. I obtained most of my initial knowledge of > Linux and open source software from newsgroups and remember having a > very good experience using them. I'm glad to hear it. ;) > As we pursue the migration of the list, I think we should keep in > mind how to bridge it to nntp and gmane. An nntp reader would > certainly be an effective way to keep up with discussions on a phone. It sounds good. > Our view about mobile devices differs. I believe strongly that mobile > devices can and will be used for everything we use laptops for today. Heh...for now my experience with the mobile is receiving 'Excuse my brevity...sent from XYZ phone' which is, in another sense, good thing. :-) > The only thing holding mobile back from being fully duplex are bad > user interfaces. If I could, I would do all my work (reading and > writing) on my phone or small tablet. I wish you all success in your pursuit, but I'm composing this reply on the desktop using my Claws-mail client and (g)vim editor. ;) Sincerely, Gour |
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On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 2:43 AM, gour [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote:
Awesome! I didn't say it would be easy ;) |
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This post was updated on Sep 10, 2014; 7:23pm.
Just "installed" Discourse with https://bitnami.com/stack/discourse (the Docker installation is also quite simple https://github.com/discourse/discourse/blob/master/docs/INSTALL-digital-ocean.md)
The database schema of Discourse is pretty straightforward. Is there any Cloud provider offering free services for OSS project ? Although I think they will for sure ask to add some sort of banner or mention that they offering us free services (ah advertising... nothing is free :)) Somebody already working on the migration ? I'm asking to avoid making the task twice :) Cheers, Guillaume |
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I've just found out that Discourse provides import_scripts : https://github.com/discourse/discourse/tree/master/script/import_scripts
Unfortunately there's nothing (yet) for Nabble :) |
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The import is looking good !
But I will need a Ruby ninja to help me clean the content. Nabble stores emails headers, HTML tags and all kind of formatting into a single column named "message" in the database.... For example: > If you reply to this email, your message will be added to the discussion b=\r elow:\r > http://discuss.asciidoctor.org/Editing-with-live-preview-tp6p19.html\r > To start a new topic under Asciidoctor :: Discussion, email ml-node+s49171=\r n1h37@n6.nabble.com=20\r > To unsubscribe from Asciidoctor :: Discussion, click here.\r > NAML\r \r --Apple-Mail-8A8292EE-DECA-44A8-B178-1AD41456B85D\r Content-Type: text/html;\r charset=utf-8\r Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit\r \r <html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Slight tangent to this: we should support running on a whole directory and looking for asciidoc files and run them. Then you can watch a whole directory!<br><br>Sent from my iPhone</div><div><br>On Mar 2, 2013, at 20:12, "mojavelinux [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion]" <ml-node+s49171n19h95@n6.nabble.com> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>\r |
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I forked Discourse to add a Nabble import script : https://github.com/Mogztter/discourse/tree/nabble-import
You have to run : cd ${discourse_install_directory} rake db:create db:migrate bundler exec ruby script/import_scripts/nabble.rb I'm using the Docker image of Discourse to test locally. |
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Guillaume, Amazing progress! Je suis très heureux ! I've create an issue in the asciidoctor.org repository to track the progress and tasks on this project. (I assigned the issue to you since you've been leading up the migration, but I don't expect you to do it all alone). If you can explain what we need to parse out of the mime e-mail message, I can help with parsing. If the messages are in an authentic e-mail format, we could use actionmailer or some other gem to extract the content out of the messages. We could also crowd source the question on Twitter so we can get pointed in the right direction. We are getting there. I'll post updates about the hosting in a separate reply. Cheers! -Dan On Sat, Sep 13, 2014 at 8:16 AM, ggrossetie [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote: I forked Discourse to add a Nabble import script : https://github.com/Mogztter/discourse/tree/nabble-import Dan Allen | http://google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen |
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In reply to this post by ggrossetie
On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 11:36 AM, ggrossetie [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote: The database schema of Discourse is pretty straightforward. Is there any Cloud provider offering free services for OSS project ? Although I think they will for sure ask to add some sort of banner or mention that they offering us free services (ah advertising... nothing is free :)) While I was at OSCON, someone had recommended that I get in touch with Bluehost because they have a free hosting program to support OSS projects. The person who runs that program is Jared Smith, the former Fedora project lead. Since we've been good about packaging Asciidoctor for Fedora (thanks to Ken!), I figured we have a strong case. I received a promising reply: > The program you're looking for is the "Bluehost Open Source Solutions" program {1}, which I happen to run. We'd be happy to provide you with free hosting. Can you give me some indication on what size hosting platform you think you need? Would a VPS cover it, or do you require a dedicated server? > > The only thing we'd ask in return for the hosting is a mention of Bluehost on the website and perhaps in social media. (We would also be happy to setup an affiliate link so that your project could get some money for anybody who signed up for Bluehost hosting based on your recommendation.) I'm happy to credit companies that support Asciidoctor, so I think these are good terms. Since Jared is a great open source leader, I feel confident this will be a good partnership. I think we just need a VPS. I don't think we're going to run into a scaling problem, at least not yet. Agreed? The affiliate link is interesting. Until now, Asciidoctor has had no funding, just support in the form companies in the form of subscriptions, computing resources, and labor. Since Asciidoctor isn't (yet) a part of a software foundation, a representative of Asciidoctor, like OpenDevise, would need to hold this money for the project. We could then use it for project expenses like hosting (if necessary), events or travel for community members. Certainly something worth considering if it can help the project grow. Obviously, transparency is key. -Dan Dan Allen | http://google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen |
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Hi Dan,
> If you can explain what we need to parse out of the mime e-mail message, I can help with parsing. If the messages are in an authentic e-mail format, we could use actionmailer or some other gem to extract the content out of the messages. We could also crowd source the question on Twitter so we can get pointed in the right direction. I explained the issues on GitHub, tell me if this is clear enough. > I think we just need a VPS. I don't think we're going to run into a scaling problem, at least not yet. Agreed? I think so, we have 200 users, 2000 posts and 500 topics and I'm running on a 2GB VM with 1 CPU. The VPS "standard" plan (https://www.bluehost.com/vps) should be enough according to Jeff Atwood : https://meta.discourse.org/t/migrating-a-10m-pi-forum-hardware-requirements-performance/10075 > The affiliate link is interesting... Yes we are going to get rich! Just kidding ;) |
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On Sun, Sep 14, 2014 at 3:14 AM, ggrossetie [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote: I explained the issues on GitHub, tell me if this is clear enough. Super. Let's continue the technical part of the discussion there. |
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In reply to this post by ggrossetie
> I think we just need a VPS. I don't think we're going to run into a scaling problem, at least not yet. Agreed? Perfect! I'll let Jared know so we can get the process started of reserving the space for the list. We'll probably need to run it on an alternate URL during migration, but eventually discuss.asciidoctor.org will resolve there. |
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In reply to this post by gour
If finding a host for Discourse is too challenging, I would suggest:
muut.com
Its NOT open source, but has free hosting without ads.
And seems to be an honest and modern service.
You might use it only to get better terms for Discourse hosting of course!
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On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 10:35 AM, Ole [via Asciidoctor :: Discussion] <[hidden email]> wrote: If finding a host for Discourse is too challenging, I would suggest: muut.com Its NOT open source, but has free hosting without ads. And seems to be an honest and modern service. You might use it only to get better terms for Discourse hosting of course! |
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Hello everyone,
I've imported an "old" backup from Nabble (2014-09-07). If you want to test Discourse please read: https://github.com/asciidoctor/asciidoctor.org/issues/304#issuecomment-241828027 Enjoy ;) |
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This post was updated on Feb 17, 2017; 6:35am.
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